A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Is it? Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Texas Penal Code - PENAL 42.12 | FindLaw The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Lawsuit: Sig Sauer pistol fired without trigger pull - Portsmouth Herald In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. It has nothing to do with Glock. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. how do I get one for my P320? They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Nope. U.S. lawsuits Would you? Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Sig Sauer P320: The US Army Loves This Gun (But There Is a Problem) 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. Look a fanboy. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. 01:10. Liberal, Conservative. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. L. LRRifleman . LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. 3. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer, injures director on set of While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. . What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. . Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? (unless theyre SWAT or something). I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Pistol misfire that injured soldier was an unpredictable accident - CBC 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. About Those SIG P320 Lawsuits - The Truth About Guns Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. But now, P320 is the subject. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Where is that defect now? As they should. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. First off, no joke on me. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Theyre the only product that is not. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. They didnt have to, but did. Sig Sauer lawsuit: Man charged in wife's shooting death blames gun The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Wont last!. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. . About $300. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The problem is non-existent. 2. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. Sound familiar? Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. I didnt even touch it! I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. ALL OF THEM. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Theres a couple of possibilities. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. three changes to the original design. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. BAM. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Was it his fault? He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Funny how that works. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. And thats just my opinion. LOL! This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Excellent work. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. The P320 pistol is a dog. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. Special Forces pistol discharge not caused by technical failure Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. The new guy sucks. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Give me a break. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Where is this lightning striking twice? 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. But breaking news here, skippy. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. One hell of a conspiracy. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. They admitted their problem and fixed it. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. Bravo. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Special Forces pulls new pistols from service after soldier - CBC And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. He was told to shoot two rounds. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. It was expensive. You have entered an incorrect email address! I agree. The new Kirk does suck. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. PSA-P320 Accidental Discharge Threads | SIG Talk The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? They function as commanded every time. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls.