Remove the front cover of the water heater. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. The error code E441 informs about the open thermistor or short circuit problem. Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? $197.08 $ 197. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. And thats a wrap! First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. Hi Christopher, not really. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. Thats all for today. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. This serves two functions: You save water. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. (1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. If necessary, replace them all. Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. Answer: It really depends on your model type. The whole point of installing such a pump is to get hot water fast. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Not sure I am understanding. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. Where did you find that info? Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. air), Sensible Heat (BTU/hr) = 1.1 x CFM x t (std. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater.
Others run on a timer. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. Is it possible to create a concave light? This comprehensive guide helps to make the operation and repair of your heater easier. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators.
NaviCirc Recirculation Valve | Navien It should come out of the hot water port.
Do You Need A Recirculating Pump With A Tankless Water Heater? When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? Examine and wash the intake air filter underneath running water using a toothbrush. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. I think it's 100F. Change the thermistor if needed. and our Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Therefore, I can't drain the system. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. Thats why turning off your pump is important when youre not using it. You can install it yourself (DIY circulation pump installation) or call a professional; more on that in the part about how much do hot water recirculating pumps cost. Works great and saves the copper pipes. We dont. We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). This is known as recirculating home pump comfort system (Type #2) and its the most popular way to get hot water quickly. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? There are no error codes showing. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket.
Hot Water Recirculating Pumps Explained: Why, How, Costs (+Tankless) The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. Next, clean the dirt-trap. Start by removing it from the heater so you can clean it properly. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. We turn it off because it will waste gas. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. JavaScript is disabled. The short answer is no, your water will still be pure.
plumbing - Why is my hot water circulator causing there to be hot water We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. Hathaspace Smart True HEPA Air Purifier Reviews, 4+6 Best Whole-House Dehumidifiers (Ducted, Portable), 4 Quietest Dehumidifiers (Best Bedroom Dehumidifiers): 52.1 dB Or Lower, energy-efficient way of getting hot water. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. FREE Returns .
Hot Water Recirculating Pump: What You Should Know - Best San Diego The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Turn off the power before removing the filter. A water recirculating pump is also similar to this.
Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues.
Do Tankless Water Heaters Needs Recirculation Pumps? I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. Do you want to know the details? This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. It only takes a minute to sign up. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. (std. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. What disadvantages, beside cost???? We might be able to do something about it. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. I noticed my apartment building installed one and at that time the whole water pressure was low. It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Here is the list of all the parts you need to install a recirculation pump. rev2023.3.3.43278. After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. Prevention of Modern Slavery Progress Reports. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory.
NAVIEN NPE-180A SERVICE MANUAL Pdf Download | ManualsLib Yes, you can turn it off by yourself.
Can I Turn Off My Hot Water Recirculating Pump? [Answered] This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Then turn on the heater and then your pump. but you stopped short for me. air). You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in?
Signs There's a Problem with Your Hot Water Recirculating Pump - Maeser As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . Here is the final install. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? Here are the leading causes of strange noises coming from your heater; Hire a professional or installer to repair your heater to avoid damaging the heater and voiding your warranty. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). A loose part causing unnecessary vibrations, Vacuum in the water lines causing vibrations, A dirty flow sensor leading to gas flow interference and producing weird noises.
Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. If we dont use it, we waste a lot of water. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. Video of the Day Step 2 Check the three wires are connected to the plug terminals. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. All you have to know is how to turn it off. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Water recirculating pumps just circulate the water; the water pressure should stay the same. Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. You certainly dont want that, do you? This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. This is the system you can see in the photos above. Both types of systems have similar pros and cons. There are several ways to do it. Privacy Policy. I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. Lets hop in! Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. You can replace the sensor if needed. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side.
Navien tankless water heater recirculation | 2016-04-01 | Plumbing and The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Take care! This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . This may require chasing the supply lines. Many systems turn on and off automatically to keep the water within a specified temperature range. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide.
Recirculation Tankless Water Heater - NRCR | Noritz The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. On-Demand Mode. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after you've turned it off for your safety. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. Press J to jump to the feed. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hi. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water.