crushed limestone for muddy yard

Required fields are marked *. Rotted chips basically become soil. With my crew, I need to add a layer of fresh 1/4 minus every Fall. Live and learn! So now that I have all the information needed to make a good decision about what is the best paddock surface for horses in a wet, rainy climate its time to look at what Im prepared to spend! After tilling is complete, spread the required amount . Scraped out dirt, put in drain, geotextile, big rocks, then 57s, then screenings. 3. We rented the compactor from United Rentals, it is a seperate machine, but we did use a tractor to lift it off of the trailer that we brought it home with, it was heavy! It is still porous so urine soaks through reducing the need for bedding removal. I started with the crusher fines, but have not been happy with the pee spots, so Ill go back and do the pea gravel, or maybe put some sand down in the pee hole, then the next 2 layers? Vet found him full of crusher run. Another consideration: If you live in a dry climate with little rain, the dust particles in the crusher dust can work themselves deep into your horses mane and coat. Just what I needed for my muddy hillside Tennessee horse farm. That was a very interesting read! You can then layer it with geocell to prevent pooling and unstable ground. Sand tends to overwear the feet but of all the footings for paddocks, it tends to be my second choice because at least their feet stay dry. (from Kelmor in Chilliwack) We did not do a geo textile cloth (although I had one in my first hog fuel arena). My horses are surrounded by toxic plants not one of them has ever become sick. BLACK BASALT CRUSHED ROCK (1/2") Decomposed Granite. I forgot to mention our new barn has 12 stalls, so this will be 12 paddocks. Are wood chips the same thing that we call hog fuel or bark mulch here?? RIP RAP. Et voila! I have already tried to scrape down a few layers last year and dig a trench through the center of their paddock but it hasnt worked as i didnt grade the area well enough.. It can also be called quarter minus, or flume sand. If the supplier charges by the yard, then the costs can be about $27 . Ah glad you found it Lawrence! I havent read all of it yet, but for raking leaves that is very labour intensive I would suggest a leaf blower. Spreading temporary ground cover for mud, like pine flakes, crushed limestone, or feline litter, will absorb the mud and also allow you to shovel it bent on remove the excess water. So another friend of mine who builds both roads and horse trails in provincial parks, says that you cant just put the 3-inch rock layer down. During my research, I also called BC Parks & Rec who commission the horse trails in the provincial parks here and asked them what they did, as their trails seem to stay in pretty good shape all winter long, with lots of traffic on them. One thing everyone does seem to agree on, is that if you are using crusher dust or pea gravel, its best to scrape off the topsoil (mud) first and get it down to the hard soil surface, then lay your footing. We have used it both inside the barn and outside. So they tear around a lot, wrestle, lunge and pivot etc. Also, if you want your paddock to give your horses the opportunity to self-trim their hooves then definitely dont put crusher dust as your last layer on top. 5 inches equals .417 feet I would suggest a coarse, crushed quarry rock or crushed drain rock for a base rather than drain rock or pea gravel, especially for an area getting a lot of traffic. What Is Rip Rap Gravel? For the bag of 50 pounds, you can pay anywhere from $5 to $10. $ 30 - Crushed Concrete Base (Base layer of new driveways, binds w dirt) $ 32 - Crushed Concrete 610 (Mix of 1 rock down [] 1. But if your horses have slow feeders in their walk-in shelters, that is not an issue. Now I can focus on other things (water, feeders, trailer, star thistle, fences)! Middle: 3/4 minus gravel If your area has hard clay soil, it may support the pea gravel on its own. Thanks so much Eve, for stopping by and adding your wisdom/experience to this conversation much appreciated! Awesome feedback! My mare has Cushings and sometimes laminitis. Like you mentioned, it has blunted edges and wont compact as well as a 1/4 minus quarried rock. Winters are horrible for mud so I wont be caught off guard again. Limestone Is Nutrient Rich. If you had a docile herd of 2-3 horses you would likely be just fine. will disappear and every year youll be laying new gravel. This is really labor intensive and I totally did not anticipate the amount of leaf raking I was going to have to do! Angular Crushed Rock, very stable and suitable for paddocks. Youre welcome And how terribly EXCITING!! Its working out perfectly. Foundation for buildings, roads, parking lots, railroads, etc. One word of caution: Ive been using it for 6 years, no problems, but recently, recently, almost lost one of my horses to colic. I also dont worry about having my horses loose when the machinery is here. Then they add 3/4 inch gravel, and then crusher dust. Honestly, the best solution is concrete all the stables in the UK (same climate) use concrete for high traffic areas. Dont worry about timing everything to occur on the same day. As the hogfuel ages and the acid leaches out, it turns sloppy and is a fantastic host for bacteria so again, another problem to deal with.. It can be used for special build driveways for example on muddy roads, but for normal driveways we recommend #57 size, which . So far so good. Hi Natasha, I think that will get you through at least 1-2 winters (in the worst rainy climate). https://www.listentoyourhorse.com/equine-permaculture-in-rainy-climates-system-for-sustainable-pastures/, great info, i really appreciate you sharing with others as it takes time to post such info with pictures, too. For home use, it is typically bought in pellets or powder. Of course, I also have 11 horses and they are young and feisty. Congrats though and how exciting! Both serve their purposes and have tremendous demand. I tend to scrape old chips off at end of summer because with wind and sun a lot naturally disappear. Yes three walls and an open stall doors to the outside. Nearly all the faces of the fragments are fractured. As I have 2 horses I intend to build a small turnout paddock for the winter months. Rip rap is an aggregate that will perform in the harshest outdoor conditions. Or for sure you will be re-doing every year. I really appreciate the knowledge you shared. Every one of my 11 horses knows this. Btw, did a little research on star thistle as I hadnt heard of it, and I think the important point here is how MUCH the horse would have to consume to be negatively affected: The exact chemical compound responsible for toxicity in Russian knapweed and yellow star-thistle has not been defined; however, a sesquiterpene lactone, repin, is believed to be the key neurotoxin present. Just hold on Sue, Ive got a guy coming out this week who contracts with the city here to create all their parks with horse trails, drain peat bogs, etc. Heres what it looked like after the two truckloads of 3/4 inch gravel was spread out: I was happy with this for a few days, and then I started fretting about the fact that there really wasnt much room for them to move around and exercise, yet stay on the gravel. But if you live somewhere rainy like the Pacific Northwest or UK, then this industrial-grade barrier material is crucial. I also heard about the geocloth but doesnt look successful. SO pleased for you!! Especially Arabians, with their fine coats and sensitive skin, theyre not going to do well lying down on any kind of gravel. So you could probably get away with less for each layer and maybe dont even need the 3 rock. 4 inches equals .33 feet A couple years ago I had a 40 acre place with a separate 4-stall, 3-sided tractor shed about 150 yards from the house. Hi Suzy! I received your email, but no need to send the link now I see. My arena is also used as the dry area on wet days and overnight hours, I am very happy with my surface. Mitchell uses the Nilex 4551 Non-woven Geotextile when he builds horse trails in provincial parks. Among the other options are crushed stone #411, quarry process, pea gravel, jersey shore gravel, marble chips, and river rock. First layer of rock should be 40mm crushed rock, with no fines in it. Texas Aggregate & Base Materials can fill all your base material needs from recycled concrete, rip-rap, limestone, sand or gravel. I live in Chilliwack, so have the same weather as you . Next, use a power tiller to churn up the existing soil inside the forms to the proper depthabout 4 inches for a walkway or 6 inches for a driveway or other large slab. See how to fix a muddy yard including the different causes of soggy grass, tips to prevent mud from building up, and effective solutions to fix water built-up. They went deep to get it too! I forget the size but its small enough to fall through the manure fork. Shamanic Journey & Psychic Predictions from 5 Years Ago! by. Post a picture of your horses Id love to see them! I ended up having to remove that entire layer and use it as fill elsewhere. Great article. Scroll. The crushed drain rock is going to roll more than the quarried rock. And yes, that 3 rock is endlessly coming up through the 3/4 minus, and the crusher dust I layered on top! Avoid high-clay soils as subsoils. Then I thought: What if they get a thrush infection and I need to keep them completely off mud I wont be able to do that without cross-fencing the paddock! You may also be able to get away with just doing 3/4 minus and then 1/4 crusher dust if your subsoil (hardpan) is hard and not too deep. It is a material that people are familiar with in almost all parts of the world. I would love to turn one of my higher ground areas into a huge covered area with drainage footing and then 8 inches of sand on top just for them to use to lie down Maybe someday. ), Mischief, Feed Dishes & Increasing Awareness, Absolutely Easiest Way to use Horse Manure to Create a Worm Farm, Guided Meditation to Connect with your Horse, Dog, Cat or Pet, Paddock & Pasture Permaculture Setup for Rainy Climate, Livestream: Despair, Shielding & Using Imagination to Create Reality, The Dead-Easy Simplest Way to Compost Horse Manure, Horse Herd Communication Energy & Body Language, The Treacherous Creek, Tree Ecosystems, Horse Wrestling & Smooches. I have a paddock area that has nothing but mud now, especially after heavy rains and whenever the snow melts. Im concerned that if I use crusher dust or a smaller gravel, it will be easily churned into mud before the winters over. Please feel free to share your experience and experiments in the Comments section below. With the gravel, the rocks are often larger than the leaves, so the rake ends up gathering the rocks and the leaves are left behind. e.g. I have a small boarding facility, so I have 12 runs to deal with and budget is a concern, but I also know having to do it twice costs more because of mistakes lol. If I could add some thoughts based on my experience working in the sand-and-gravel business: One thing I noticed is that the 1/4 minus you initially used is a crushed drain rock rather than a quarried rock. Lime is derived from limestone and is used in agriculture and gardening to balance the acidity level of soil. The discussion seems to be wide ranging and I would appreciate your thoughts. Like Hoffmans? The horses have lovely pea gravel paddocks with in/out access. My 2 boys dont poop in their 24 x 36 paddock area so I cant comment on how much base I lose to a manure fork. Using pea gravel as a base for your hot tub has some distinct advantages.. Place 4 inches of medium-grade construction gravel on top of the landscape cloth, . At the base its currently just packed dirt. Adding sand won't work and will likely worsen your sticky situation. The same problem occurs when you shovel manure. I have since left that boarding place, but the owners (who bought their own horses after being inspired by mine) did indeed dump 4 more boxes of crusher dust on that paddock ($1400). crushed limestone for muddy yard. I wish I had better news for you. What can I use as a surface layer that will pack down fairly hard and not get cut up by hooves? Place crushed gravel on top of that, running the . Glass Mosaic Tile (13.26 sq. But as I pointed out above, examine the crusher before you order it, to make sure it is just crushed rock fines and doesnt contain any clay particles. I know nothing about it, so Im just asking you questions to stimulate your thoughts/research. Your plants also draw nutrients from their surroundings, especially the soil, that help them to flourish. I have a horse and donkey. However, on the flip side of that argument, heres what a Farrier has to say about why she prefers crusher dust: As a farrier, my favourite footing in this area is crusher dust. Wow thats crazy! A couple of extra tips; But outdoors slightly more tricky over time as wet climate works on absorbancy of chip too besides the urine. Yes the mats may pull away from the edges/wall as the ground underneath becomes uneven, but Im thinking that would be less hassle than multiple join-lines separating. Just before we close, lets talk a bit more about geotextile cloth, which many paddock experts recommend using. My big constraint with my first horse boarding set-up was that it is not my own land, I didnt have a long-term lease, and so realistically, I could be kicked out at any time. This is the best article I have read on this subject! If 2 inches of 1/2 inch angular rock plus 2 inches granite fines (so 4 inches total) would work in your barn yard, then it will work on your paths. So they obviously had serious deficiencies (their hooves were pretty bad too and thin tails). Im on year 4 of doing that and it just keeps disappearing into our rain-soaked soil. During the rainy season in the Western NC mountains, the mucky, suck your boots off, red clay is the bane of my existence. I tried sharp sand one year on top of hardstanding but it doesnt rot down and just gets dirty and heavy to shift. Of course here in our dry part of California I dont really need it but thought it might really help some of you in the wetter climates? The most common concern about using crusher dust which is just tiny, crushed gravel is whether it will be too sharp for the hooves. So if you scrape down during a wet season, the rain will just turn the formerly compacted soil into more mud. Ive also had a few that you had to be careful even with thumb pressure because that was enough to poke a hole through the sole.). Cover the fabric with a 4- to 5-inch layer of crushed #1 or #2 limestone rocks. I had my area done 2 years ago. You need good quality freshly chipped. No bark or greenery. appreciate your thoughts on this. When hes building horse trails, he puts down the Nilex geotextile, then 5-6 inches of 3 rock, then 6 inches of road base (3/4 minus). It is fantastic that you took the time and effort to go into such detail. They dont lie down in there and only really use it for a shelter. I dont know if this will help anyone, beyond being aware of it, as Im not sure myself how to prevent it. A muddy backyard in a small property can be solved with ease by covering the mud with concrete. It is crushed up #57 stone combined with . After six winters in the Pacific Northwest rainforest, with 3-11 horses, heres what Ive found works best: 1. Crushed limestone typically produced by mining limestone or dolomite rock deposits. Ive been researching every option, trying to come up with the best (and economical) course of action, so I apreciate your in depth article. I am considering using 3 deep of recycled 1minus concrete directly on top of the fresh scraped and graded ground compacted with his skidsteer and then adding 3 deep of crusher dust or sechelt sand to the top.. Visit your local nursery or landscape supply specialist to see what's available in your area. For yellow star-thistle, toxicity symptoms may arise after horses have ingested 85 to 100% of their body weight in green plant material. When choosing gravel, pea gravel, or limestone gravel, most experts say you should get crushed rock particles no larger than 3/4-inch, or they are not comfortable for the horses to stand on. ), In the section about using two layers of footing/drainage, Dr. Swinker mentioned using a coarse road base and a finer layer on top. Have to be careful, Ive seen a smaller piece (at another barn) of chip get wedged up hard in between the bar and frog. It worked well for them as they were just there for a few years. and I love the photos!!!! Just beginning to figure out what my best plan is. My least favourite footing is hogfuel and Id probably have them stand in mud over hogfuel because when hogfuel is new, it is very acidic and it etches out the sole of the foot, leaving the foot more vulnerable (Ive seen hooves so bad on it that a hoofpick can poke through the sole easily. When it gets real cold and freezes up, its nothing but thousands of frozen footprints that they can hardly walk on. Then I added 4 inches of 3/4 inch minus gravel, and then 2 inches of crusher dust. 2. This should be perfect. Now lay a layer of large rock or recycled concrete (3 inches wide or larger rock) on top of the Nilex barrier, about 5 inches deep. The perm agg base coarse is basically a coarse 1-1/4 minus, and the perm agg top coarse is a coarse 5/8 minus (basically a 3/4 minus). However, on the flip side of that argument, here's what a Farrier has to say about why she prefers crusher dust: "As a farrier, my favourite footing in this area is crusher dust. It makes total sense though that it would be slippery when wet/freezing. Thanks for the discussion. Do you have any pics you can upload? Post some before/after pics for us if you can You can upload them right here. 2. 6 inches equals .50 feet. You can order bulk limestone in Virginia today! However, if you can get them small enough (usually 3/8 5/8) to filter through the tines of your manure fork, that will make scooping poop much easier and reduce gravel wastage. If you can maximize drainage OUT of your gravel areas (using sloped land, French Drains, etc), then it might last a lot longer. And that should be no problem for their hooves either its such a short time. Only consideration is to put down rubber mats on top of the gravel in high traffic areas (eg around feeders) as that is where the horses hooves can punch through the gravel and the geotextile cloth starts to get uncovered in spots. Most plants like to grow in soil that is slightly basic, or in other words, has a pH above 7.0. More Miracles in the Singing Horse Matrix, Christmas & New Year 2021 Message from Singing Horse Herd, LTYH Podcast: Non-Verbal Observation & Acknowledgment, Connect Deeper with the Singing Horse Herd, Horse Wisdom: Who Are You, REALLY? You could not just have a few inches deep like a shavings. A. Rutter Company, a provider of . be very careful Just wondering about freezing. If you do this, be certain to fill up the ground back in with soil and sow turf seeds so the grass grows back as well as the ground doesn't lose absorbent planet. I know another one of our readers in Washington had the county pay for her gravel! . Wish I had better news for you! More importantly, you should know that the kitty litter will need to remain in the yard for at least a day or two before it is completely soaked in and then it needs to be removed. This rock has rock dust and smaller pieces of rock added to the mixture. 5. Typically, a gravel driveway will cost about $1.25 to $1.80 per square foot, taking into consideration that the driveway is . Our extensive resources allows us to quickly procure the base materials you need, have it transported and professionally installed. Again, this article is fantastic! Wouldnt have cost much extra, but would have greatly extended the life of the gravel I ordered. Crushed limestone #8G (3/8-1/2 inch) is ideal for channeling water runoff on your property. Its usually worth quite a bit of money. 2. Ill report back! Heres what 3/4 inch minus looks like and it costs me $700 including delivery: The truck arrived and dumped both loads of gravel near the shelters. The Easiest Waterhole for Horses that Doesnt Produce Mosquitoes! Im mulling the idea of doing a video/blog post just about gravel terminology and what its called in different areas. that would be cool . That said, you pretty much have to see the different types and as was mentioned by someone else, you have to know how the surface below it will effect it. I usually have my gravel delivered 2-3 days before the Bobcat/tractor guy arrives as my horses love playing on the gravel piles! A clean crushed stone with an average size of 3/4 . So, how do you fix and dry up a wet yard? BUT, what am I going to put on their paddock surface to create a paddock footing with adequate drainage? If your horses are restricted to a small area, they may then start pulling on the cloth to play with it. Someone suggested gravel or crushed limestone, but 1) I don't really want a bunch of little rocks in my yard where I have to mow right next to them and have it throw a rock up at me and 2) I think the dogs could slip on it or, perhaps worse, run another mud path right before the limestone. If you need to install a drain or culvert heres my handy step-by-step guide to install a French drain. Were doing the paddocks now using your advice. A local farmer grows willow (hardwood and quick growing) which is not poisonous and originally chipped it for power stations but they had special moisture parameters he could not meet. from coming into contact with your horses hooves, and then to facilitate the drainage of rainwater away from the surface, so your horses hooves stay drier. It does require maintenance but is sustainable. All of the rock based products are close to the same price being within 10 dollars a yard of each other. However, you dont want to use sand if your horses are going to be eating on the surface (can cause colic if ingested). Crushed Stone #411. Id highly recommend going to look at farms that offer to let you see theirs and take a good hard look at their horses feet. This is fine inside the stalls becuase there are matts over the top. since there is no way I will ever have a covid vaccine , This is an amazingly helpful article! In order to safely use limestone for landscaping, remember these points, and your garden will thrive: 1. Because ALL ground sinks and displaces unevenly as weather and moisture changes. In order to alleviate mud problems, consider laying a base of #3 or #4 Limestones on top of which you can layer 2B or 2A . Their paddock is 8000 sq feet, so cost is definitely an issue. As long as you keep their hay off the sand (hay nets with a large bucket or built in container to catch escaped hay underneath?) Let me know how it goes! One of the most common uses of crushed limestone is in laying driveways. Great info. These methods quickly dry up the yard, allowing you to operate on it with a . This size rock resembles lemons or grapefruits and provides a firm base for the driveway. But by April, the area around the slow feeders was wet and mucky. You have to pick up manure everyday but so worth it. Sometimes you have to do some research into what to lay down below it. Limestone crushed to the 1- and 1/2-inch size, mixed with pulverized limestone, can be used as the layer between the soil and the stone blocks according to the J. For the people that love crusher dust, they seem to love it because it packs down hard and forms a cement-like surface that doesnt sink into mud. If you have a fenced yard, this is also a great way to reduce mud around the perimeter where your dog most likely walks the most to patrol the yard. And thanks so much for letting all of us know. Particle uniformity refers to the mix of particle sizes within the blend. Some horses freak out and run around, others are curious and want to look inside the bucket and cab, but either way, once they start working the horses move out of the way. The question is: what should I put down on the surface of this paddock; what drainage materials will work best and not cost me crazy money? OR perhaps you live in a region that just gets occasional downpours or flooding, so you dont think youll need the geotextile layer, or the same layers of rock/gravel. I like the fines so far for helping with the mud, but for sure am trying a longer term solution. Too much depth doesnt matter so much indoors and I had a barn I never had to dig out. Also handy in the shed to clean out all dust. Both areas were destroyed in a couple of months once the rains started the cloth was either sticking up all over the place (the other woman said her horses would then grab it in their teeth and pull on it we just cut it off), or it had disappeared into the muck. Im less concerned with the following years, since I may not even be there. Any advice? Well, keep me posted if you can and let me know what happens! You should dig the hole 4 feet deep and just as wide. This hole area is low. Even I get confused. ft. (1/3 cu. I read it for research in preparation to write a blog post about a horse farm that uses 1/4 minus for their horse arena and event venue. Ideal for situations where you need it to pack together, crushed stone is the product you want for walkways & driveways, or anywhere you need a good, hard base. If you are putting it over mud, you arent going to get the positive results that many of us see with it. And I will move them to the field next to it. But let us know what you find out! Ive heard gravel and have been avoiding it, but I am now considering it from your article/blog. This is where we can choose to support our horses in a wholistic manner. Work these rocks into. I wonder if he was eating the crusher seeking to address a mineral deficiency You can just offer the plain (unflavored, no molasses) basic Hoffmans Minerals in a feeder/bucket in a covered area and let them help themselves. Sorry I havent seen or experimented with stall footing. I think the punchiness of horses hooves disturbs the gravel so much, that all that needs to happen is for them to punch through to the geotextile in a very small spot and then that quickly enlarges. Well, because of the difficulties cleaning the manure and leaves off it (detailed above) AND the horses will not lie down on the gravel, but they will lie down on the crusher dust. Young's Sand and Gravel, a landscape supply company located in Ohio, charges $20 a ton for all limestone, except for #8, which can cost $2 more a ton. Part 2. You could possibly place a third layer of 1/4 minus (what we call trail mix gravel) on top of the permeable layers. Its the best info Ive found. They are never locked up and only have a run in, that is in the paddock. Awesome Sherry! Gravel for paths is sold by type and size. Go ahead and compact again. Great info Donna thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! Make sure you dont get smooth-edged crusher though it needs to have the jagged/irregular edges to pack properly. I was interested to see if it would work, as a woman had written in (who also lives in this Pacific Northwest climate) to tell me that its never worked for her horses. One cubic yard contains 1.4 to 1.5 tons of stone. The other important thing with gravel, is that it requires regular grading/maintenance. Oh, and even though I added a new portable shelter for them, so they could stand outside to eat, this rain cover did not prevent the gravel from sinking into the ground around the slow feeders by April; just from the wear and tear of their hooves without any rainfall on it. Plan on spending anywhere between $32 and $55 per cubic yard of clean crushed rock and $15 to $37 per cubic yard of minus crushed rock. Your email address will not be published. Jini Patel Thompson is a natural health writer and Lazer Tapping instructor. And then the cloth gets moved around by their hooves. Seriously, DO it. So much good information (all based on experience with horses, which is good). If you are ordering crusher dust, its best if you can get a look at it, to make sure it is just rock fines and doesnt have clay (or a lot of sand particles) in it. Thanks for letting us know . I live in Ireland where we have a wet mild climate. Add about 4 inches per level and compact each layer. The result is a durable, all-weather surface that is acceptable for animals.. So true! Larry. One way to fix mud holes in the driveway is by filling it with small, crushed stone. We built it on a base of 1" crushed limestone at the recommendation of the builder. All I had to do was put fresh on top. I also found it really helpful to install a French Drain in my current paddock to help funnel the water off/away from the paddock and this made a huge difference in the effectiveness of my paddock surface. You have to be sort of careful of sharp twigs if not screened but I have not had any problems over 19 years. The pea gravel has to be changed over to new, clean material every few years, I think. Now, keep in mind that Dr. Swinkers advice is not tailored for a heavy rainfall area. Bridges of Kentucky > Blog > Uncategorized > crushed limestone for muddy yard. ), they told me that the Cloverdale Racetrack uses limestone gravel for their track. Road base costs $18 to $30 per ton. State Approved Road Base View Ad. Gravel is bound to have runoff, so your installation of a French drain was a great idea. It is abundant, widely available, and inexpensive. This way, Im not having to shovel it back in to the center as it builds up along the edges (where its wasted). How To Remove an Old Post using a Farm Jack, Audelina Assigns Me an Exercise to Prepare for Riding, How I Use Wild Oregano Oil with Horses & Dogs, Fencing Pros and Cons & The Best Horse Fence, I Feel Guilty My Vet Injured/Killed my Horse, Horses Help Heal Generational Lines of Dysfunction, Intuitive Herb Selection for Your Horse Part 2, Horse Self-Selects Herbs to Help with Metabolism & Weight Regulation Part 1. So I would rather rake and sweep. In my opinion, in this rainy climate, not removing the topsoil down to the firmer layer and then putting down a layer of commercial-grade barrier, and then a layer of large rocks (at least 3 inches wide) is throwing your money away.